Subject: From: Date:

RE: [ECS] recommended microphone Gerry Duprey Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:36:11 -0400 (EDT)

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On Sun, 11 Jul 1999, Richard V.C. Tinker wrote:

> > normal single gang box).  They use the entire wall as a sounding board and
> > are much more sensitive than a PC microphone.  They are also designed to
> > pick up voice and as such, cut out low frequencies (HVAC noise,
> > compressors, and such) as well as high frequency stuff.  In otherwords,
> > they are mostly about picking up only voice spectrum stuff (about 3Khz to
> > 10Khz).
> 
> Actually, the PZM microphones do not do the limiting/compressing of the audio
> channel - it picks up EVERYTHING.  It is the limiter/compressor that you got

Well, according to Crown (and my own limited testing), these do
intentionally roll off low frequencies to avoid HVAC noise. They also seem
to attenuate high frequency sounds quite a bit. I understand that the
sound profile can be substantially altered with a limiter/compressor, but
the mics really do have some special modifications that help out just by
themselves.

> with your HomeVoice multi-room kit that does the attenuation of the frequency
> range outside voice and adds the 'punch' to the voice frequency range.

I never got the HomeVoice multi-room kit.  While much of my stuff is
similar, the parts were picked up seperately and consist of multiple mic
mixers (one being the Rolls) and gates (a few being the rolls).  I often
point out the rolls because it's actually pretty good stuff at a pretty
good price (especially if you go to your local music store (one that deals
with amps and such) and negotiate a deal).

> It is a good mixer, but it is not an automatic mixer (more in a minute) -
> furthermore, it is modified by Rolls for use with their compressor/limiter
> (which means the HomeVoice multi-room kit) such that you lose half of your
> microphone phantom power voltage and can only gate two of the input channels.

Losing phantom power is a big pain, but if you get the PZM11LL, you just
run seperate power to the unit (if you are already pulling cable).  Once
you do that, you run each mic into a gate and then into the mixer.  All my
mics are gated (well, except for the test mic in the HA closet).  If you
can't run a seperate power line, there are ways to "add" phantom power to
a line (but it's a bit clunkier).

> A gate is very important, which is why only having two is not very good.  Each
> input should be gated, and preferably against the other inputs so that only one
> can be open at a time.  An automatic mixer provides the microphone mixing
> feature as well as the gating with priority.  In other words, if somebody
> starts talking in one microphone, the others are closed off.  When silence is

I agree, but there is no reason to be limited to two gates.  Each of the
Rolls gates have two channels - if you want to gate 6 mics, you just get
three gates and run the mics into the gates, then the mixer(s).  There are
other multi-channel gates as well as single channel gates out there as
well.

The info on gating priority is a good idea.  I've personally not needed it
in my house (as there are no children :-), but I could see it being a
reasonable benefit in the right circumstances.

> > The ability to issue voice commands anywhere in a room by just speaking is
> > really great.  This is an area that HomeVoice seems to handle well -
> > efficiant/accurate voice recognition in open-air mic configurations.  The
> > software is very forgiving without causing false recognitions.
> 
> Yes, so long as you don't ask a house guest to try to turn on a light...  :-o

True, as HomeVoice needs to be trained for each user.  I've never had a
guest have a problem though (we still have manual switches (well,
manually activatable) and for most guests, that is enough).  Even with
speaker independent speech rec, you'd still need to "train the guest" in
terms of how to phrase commands.  Granted, HAL is fairly flexible with
it's input, but I'd guess most guest would be just as happy to use a light
switch for their stays.

> > HAL says they support open air mics too and that they have installs, but
> > I've personally not encountered anyone succesfully using it with open air
> > mics.  I don't mean to discredit them in anyway, but since I've not heard

> You don't hear about it because this is an ECS user's list, not a HAL user's
> list.  For one, contact the dealer at http://www.homecontrolinc.com and he can

Okay, but I also read/monitor the automation news groups, the ECS list and
the HomeVision list.  Not an exhaustive list of all places HAL is
discussed, but I've frequently seen reports of people using HomeVoice
successfully in these arenas.  I've not seen that for HAL (for open air
mics, that is - many people are clearly happy with HAL in general).  It
may be just a coincidence or different market (i.e. maybe less DIY folks
usng HAL??) that results in it.  I am looking forward to the HGTV segment.

> We provide both methods of input, microphone and telephone, because we know
> that not everybody is building a new home and can run microphone wires.  The
> thing about us compared to HomeVoice, however, is that HomeVoice CANNOT do the
> telephone!!

Agreed, though adding a telephone coupler for HomeVoice is pretty easy (I
did it for remote access), it is not part of the base product and
something to consider when chosing which product fits your needs.

> This is true - a lot of other product information for the ECS list, but... I
> love ECS and think that Mark is a FANTASTIC programmer.  So getting back to the
> original content, let me point out that the reason also that you don't see HAL
> advertising hardware is because we do not resell the hardware.  If you notice
> what HomeVoice sells the Applied Digital ir-X board for, you'll see that over
> $200 is added to it.  Worthington Distribution (and other distributors) sell it
> for as little as $90 with the TW-523.  What do you think HomeVoice is doing to
> the audio equipment then? ...

I guess I don't see a need to get on their case about the hardware.  Sure
they sell it and I can't imagine they don't intend to make a profit.  But
they don't make any bones about where they get the hardware and that you
can get it yourself.  I beleive (and this is from a fairly casual
conversation with them) that some of the hardware they sell is because
customers asked them for a "complete kit" - "just give me all the stuff to
make it work". For those who have a bit more patience/time/knowledge, you
can get the parts you want and put it together (i.e. automation
controllers, mixers, mics, etc).

My company is a software company.  However, even we will "resell" hardware
(servers mostly).  We tell folks what they need to run our software and a
list of some places to look.  As much as we try to tell them they can get
a better price by buying the hardware elsewhere, most of them just want it
all to work together and don't want to hassle puting together a server and
so buy it from us (even when we tell them that since we deal in such low
volumes, they'll probably wind up paying more for it from us). Surprising
to us (we did not want to be construed as gougers), people want and
appreciate this "service" from us.  Wierd but true.

Gerry Duprey                     EMAIL: gerry@msage.com 
Micro Sage Software Systems      VOICE: (734) 663-0444
130 South First Street             WWW: http://www.msage.com/~gerry
Ann Arbor, MI 48104 USA

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